AOL File Library: 12,000 to 12,999

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ AOL File Library: 12,000 to 12,999 / 12000.zip / AOLDLs / File Storage Library 1 / Reproduction 11-96 / RPRO1196.txt < prev

Wrap

Text File | 2014-12-27 | 94.7 KB | 2,439 lines

================== Subj: Re:kitty contraceptives Date: 96-11-01 07:58:02 EST From: MVYVET Scarlette, Well, she has that special breed. .. half abby/alley cat cross. .. Also she wanted her daughter to see kittens being born etc..( I sometimes actually have trouble arguing with that because I think the litters we had when I was a kid are what put me on the road to VIN.) But I managed to convince here to spay them. They went home yesterday. M ================== Subj: Re:kitty contraceptives Date: 96-11-01 10:29:28 EST From: SGotwals Michelle, I think you brought up some good points....I always struggle with the issue of who has the *right* to breed....just because someone does it as a hobby/business and competes why does that make it okay and not okay for a home bred litter.....who gives us the right to decide....obviously we go with the idea that breeders are more responsible and urge neutering of inferior anaimals and carefully place their animals...but some of the healthiest animals I see are the DSH and *mutts*....I also have some fond childhood memories of puppies and kittens......just some thoughts...... Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Mycoplasma Cultures?? Date: 96-11-01 10:53:21 EST From: SGotwals Sue, I know how frustrating this is. What about bacterila growth?? What is his motility? Did you note a visual rough estimate of defects? do you have a sperm count? How is his prostate on palpation? Any signs of prostatitis? How old is he? Is he a kennel or house dog? How many other dogs at home/kennel? Is he being specialed? Is he out with a handler? or do they take him to shows and return home or does he stay out on road? Is he going south for winter circuits? Is he receiving coat enhancers? What kind? If he is spending time with trainer or handler he may be receiving supplements that the owner is not aware of? Treadmill or roadwork?? See how much info you can get for us.... You need to rule out any underlying problem that is causing a strain....CBC, Chem, T4, U/A, Fecal, Bruc. Palpate his testicles and prostate. If available testicular and prostatic U/S could also be considered. Repeat semen analysis with morphology, motility and count assessment. If you are not seeing a semen problem and all is normal...assure owners that you will stay on top of their concerns and realize that mycoplasma doesn't cause infertility overnight, it takes time and they should have a repeat, complete SA in 3 to 4 months. At that time reculture semen for mycoplasma as well as a comparative culture of the urethra/prepuce for mycoplasma(depending on how much the owners want to do this could be done now...if mycoplasma grows from the comparative culture then it supports normal flora for this dog). Caution them that long range use of antibiotics presents its own risks and that the myco may be normal flora for him...BUT if you find high percent of secondary defects then I would treat now. I have had success with Doxycycline in some dogs that did not respond to Baytril(but these dogs had clinically evident semen morph changes to follow for judging response to therapy). Sue if you can post more info about the dog it would be helpfull :). Unfortunately absolute answers are not available on this topic. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:oxytocin Date: 96-11-01 11:07:05 EST From: SGotwals Andoc This can be a tough call and is different in every case. It can be very normal to go several hours between pups. If the bitch is not having any visible contractions and is behaving perfectly as expected then it may be right to wait. Some clients are more trustworthy in their evaluation than others. Usually I suggest taking bitch out for a controlled leash walk(have towel handy)....feed a little....place puppies back on to nurse afterwords and stimulate them to take a long feeding and massage mammary chain...often this will stimulate progress naturally plus it gives the bitch some more time...after this if no signs of any labor I may have the owner give a pit shot if I am going to be available if labor doesn't progress quickly...also have to thing about primary uterine inertia as a result of low calcium. Recently there was an article in the Gazette about two OBGYN Nurses who started a company that has monitors for bitches that transmitts fetal heartbeats as well as uterine contraction info thru a telephone monitor to their facility...the then provide info back to the vet.....has anybody tried this or talked to them?? I will see if I can find out more....if a bitch is having unproductive contractions then oxytocin would be contraindicated. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:oxytocin Date: 96-11-01 19:13:47 EST From: ANDOCWEST Thanks Andoc ================== Subj: spayed but in heat Date: 96-11-04 21:37:27 EST From: AltheaVet We recently spayed a stray bitch at our hospital. Two weeks later she has a bloody mucous vaginal discharge. Her vulva is not swollen. I didn't have an opportunity to do vaginal cytology but the answer to my question would probably have been there. I tapped her bladder & there was no blood in her urine. I did a digital vaginal exam but didn't feel anything I was sure was abnormal. Could she be having some kind of estrus if she'd been on the verge of estrus 2 weeks ago at spay? AltheaVet ================== Subj: Re:Mycoplasma Cultures?? Date: 96-11-04 21:41:27 EST From: Aussie Vet Hey-Thanks for your help. This dog has been specialled, but is now being kept home (just in the last few weeks.) He is not on any supplements, HW preventative, etc. His fertility has been great with natural breedings, but he didn't settle 5 o6 bitches that were bred with AI, cooled, or frozen semen even though his semen quality was reported good at the time. We are planning on getting another collection to stain and look at morphology and also to do a CBC and Profile as you suggested. In the meantime we have started on Doxycycline as the owners did not want to chance anything. I'll let you know how the results turn out. Thanks again Sue ================== Subj: Re:Mycoplasma Cultures?? Date: 96-11-05 09:29:36 EST From: SGotwals Sue, Sounds like you have a good game plan. I would also look into why the bitches did not conceive with AI, Chilled, Frozen.... AI should have normal conception rate equal to naturals....who does them? you? or the owner? does the owner have a scope to look for motility....perhaps there collection method or insemination method has a problem or if using a latex AV it may be spermicidal Fresh Chilled....look at starting motility vs. arrival motility and total sperm count. Not all dogs have semen suitable for chilled even though it may look adequate initially. Other Q's... was an estrus teaser bitch used for collections?...what was the volume prior to dilution?..time interval between collection and insemination?? Frozen...what was the post thaw motility? Were Sx inseminations done?? What was the history of the bitches involved?? Looking into these areas may highlight a problem with this dogs ejaculate. Please post anything you can find out about the specifics of the breedings that were unsuccessful. Good luck, Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:spayed but in heat Date: 96-11-05 09:34:40 EST From: SGotwals Althea, I would not expect the discharge to be related to estrus unless ovarian tissue was inadvertently left behind. Since the discharge had mucus in it I would wonder about a suture reaction from the area of the uterine stump or possibly abcess formation. You are right a vaginal swab would be very helpful. Is the discharge persistant? Scarlette ================== Subj: Femoral Head necrosis Date: 96-11-05 10:57:57 EST From: JudiSB Does anyone know if femoral head necrosis is a heritable trait in the Toy Fox Terrier? Judi ================== Subj: retained testicles? Date: 96-11-05 12:51:51 EST From: BUNMKSVET I was presented a stray male cat for casteration. However there were no testicles in the scrotum. There was no evidence of previous surgery. The cat had a number of secondary male chacteristic(big head, urine odor). I was unable to palpate anything in the groin area. Is there some sort of testosterone measurement that I can use to evaluate if the cat is intact or not. He is also Fiv positive. Thanks John ================== Subj: Re:spayed but in heat Date: 96-11-05 14:18:15 EST From: AltheaVet Yes, discharge is persistent but dog has since been adopted. If we hear about it from the new owner, we'll let you know :) AltheaVet ================== Subj: Repost: Blue Merle Aussies Date: 96-11-05 22:08:47 EST From: K9DOC From the IM board: ================== Subj: Australian Sheepdogcan Date: 96-11-05 19:12:25 EST From: BrightonAH Posted on: America Online can anyone tell me the congenital defect that occurs in the Blue Merle color of Australian Sheepdogs? ================== Subj: Re:Vulvar glands/abscesses? Date: 96-11-05 23:00:55 EST From: CanVet no fold problems and no response to synotic yet. I think I will ask her to return for C&S and panalog in the meantime. Kris ================== Subj: Re:Repost: Blue Merle Aussie Date: 96-11-06 10:33:37 EST From: Watusi I think you are asking about colobomas. We have two nice board articles on "merle" in the database, if that's useful to you. Becky ================== Subj: Testicular torsion Date: 96-11-06 13:09:13 EST From: TOMMY 2TH I had an 8 month old Pekinese that came in for an acute abdomen. X-rays were unrevealing and fb was suspected. Barium stayed primarily in the stomach for >5 hours and exploratory was performed. Ileus was noted without obstruction and on further exploration a 4 centimeter ,purple and distended cryptorchid torsion was noted. The teste was removed along with another in the inguinal area. I have some GREAT pictures of the surgery and comparisons of the two testicles. My question is I havent heard of this in 13 years of practice- If this is rare, I 'd like to write this up. Any help on this subject? (btw the lil' dog is doing great!) Thanks Tom ================== Subj: Re:Testicular torsion Date: 96-11-06 13:13:18 EST From: TOMMY 2TH I was not wise enough to put testicles in formalin immediately. They are still in my freezer tho, I am unsure if this was a normal testicle or not. can I still place this in formalin and get diagnostic info? tom ================== Subj: Re:retained testicles? Date: 96-11-06 17:04:44 EST From: K9obgyn John, Presence of secondary sex characteristics is probably enough to warrant an exploratory. Does the penis have spines? GnRH or hCG can be used in cats to detect retained testicles. They cause pulsatile testosterone surge. I give doses and results from Shirley Johnson in Therio proc 1996 Serum testosterone Conc, ng/ml Dog Cat Resting Testosterone 0.5- 5.0 <0.05 - 3.0 4 hr post(20u/lb IM) hCG 4.6- 7.5 3.1 - 9.0 1 hr post (1 ug/lb IM) GnRH 3.7 - 6.2 5.0 - 12.0 Kit Kampschmidt, DVM ================== Subj: Re:Testicular torsion Date: 96-11-06 17:08:28 EST From: K9obgyn Tom, Neat case. Never seen one myself. I guess that makes it" rare". I would think that freezing has destroyed most of the cells and would probably not get good histo. Maybe worth a try, call your lab. Kit ================== Subj: Re:Repost: Blue Merle Aussie Date: 96-11-06 22:15:59 EST From: Aussie Vet You are probably referring to the lethal white situatiion that occurs with a homozygous merle situation. This doesn't occur in all blue merles just some that are the result of a merle to merle mating. The pups will usually be mostly white, especially on the head and can have both hearing and vision loss, many with multiple ocular abnormalities such as iris colobomas. Most responsible Aussie breeders avoid merle to merle matings, or selectively euthanize any excessively white puppies/ Sue ================== Subj: "spayed" female in estrus Date: 96-11-07 14:22:43 EST From: Roosdm I have been presented w/a 4 yr old malamute female dog that was spayed in 4/93. She contin- ued to have estrous cycles. So the veterinarian who did the orginal surgery re-explored her when she was "in heat" in 1/94. She removed what seemed to be ovarian tissue near one of the kid- neys. However, the dog still has estrous cycles (w/proestrul bleeding). Owner would like to know what can be done. I told him we could re-explore (when she is in estrus) and remove tissue caudal to both kidneys (and send it in for histopath) or put her on Cheque drops chronically. What do you advise?? ================== Subj: Genetic tracking of parents Date: 96-11-08 11:40:26 EST From: SPJCDRK1 I have had a client ask if it is possible (through DNA examination) to check authenticity of the Tom and Quenn as parents of a purebred kitten. Is this type of technology available today? Thanks ================== Subj: Re:Genetic tracking of paren Date: 96-11-08 13:51:35 EST From: Watusi Yes, the technology is available. In fact, many breed registries (horse & cattle particularly) require DNA of bloodtyping for registration purposes. Becky ================== Subj: Re:Genetic tracking of paren Date: 96-11-08 13:52:00 EST From: Watusi DNA *or* bloodtyping my typing sometimes stinks ================== Subj: Re:"spayed" female in estrus Date: 96-11-08 16:05:23 EST From: SGotwals How frequently is this bitch having signs of estrous? Before jumping in for surgery you may want to document estrous. Vaginal cytology would document elevated estrogen. I am surprised that the owner reports estrual bleeding..... was this bitch ever spayed?? Without the uterus you would not expect any discharge. An ovarian remnant would cause behavioral estrous as well as vulvar swelling but not discharge unless there also was considerable uterine tissue. I have only searched for an ovarian remnant once in a cat....the ovarian tissue was evident and removed. In this bitch it would be interesting to see her in "season" .....follow with some cytology....check a progesterone when she goes "out"....can also give GnRH to stimulate luteinization. You are definitely right that you need to look for remnants when the bitch is hormonally active...in estrous or in early diestrus when the tissue would be luetinized. But in this case if bleeding is present you may find more than a simple remnant. I would be concerned about prolonged Cheque Drops....I also would be concerned about the potential for stump pyometra down the road. Please let us know what you find. :) Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Genetic tracking of paren Date: 96-11-08 16:07:57 EST From: SGotwals Usually for the best degree of certainty they will need samples from both parents, the offspring in question and if possible from the other possible parent. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Vulvar glands/abscesses? Date: 96-11-08 16:09:09 EST From: SGotwals Kris, Sounds like a good approach...let us know how it works out. :) Scarlette ================== Subj: Spermac stain Date: 96-11-08 17:14:42 EST From: NRoskin Received and tried the Spermac stain. Works very well - can distinctly see head, mid-piece, tail. Wonder is you can detail any changes in the head re fertility of the individual cell, eg, acrosome. Have to see if there is any liter on using the stain for such details. The stain was expensive. If it is a modified form of a pap stain - maybe more reasonble to use a pap stain and see how it works. Norm ================== Subj: Re:"spayed" female in estrus Date: 96-11-09 16:24:30 EST From: Aussie Vet How often have you used Cheque drops and what are your experiences with it's use? I have several clients who have asked about using it to keep their show bitches out of heat or to prevent cycling when their bitches are known to develop false pregnancies. Is it safe? and what about future fertility? Should they try to breed on heats following cessation of the drug or wait until the second heat? Thanks! Sue ================== Subj: Stud dog problems. Date: 96-11-09 16:30:34 EST From: Aussie Vet I am working with a 5yr old Labrador stud dog who 3 weeks ago presented with golf ball sized lumps on either side of the penis but within the sheath. The penis itself was perfectly normal, he never ran a fever, and there was minimal discharge. The dog had been collected for artificial insemination 3 days prior and was apparently normal at that time. Aspirate of the lumps revealed inflammatory cells only, no evidence of neoplasia, and a CBC was normal. The dog was placed on Cephalexin, and switched to Baytril 5 days later when only minimal improvement was noted. After 10 days of BAytril, the dog was apparently normal. PE was normal in every other way, prostate normal, etc. He had a negative Brucellosis test in Aug. The owner just called and said the swellings have returned,,, he was normal when a natural breeding took place 3 days ago. What could this be? Further actions???? Thanks, Sue ================== Subj: Line bred Labradors Date: 96-11-09 20:13:25 EST From: LJHVET My tech purchased a bitch many years ago who was highly linebred. I also happen to have one of the pups who is an outcross. My dog and it turns a total of 6 other labs from this line have urogenital abnormalities. Most of the affected dogs had ectopic ureteers but the other commonality was 1 kidney. My dog was a chryporchid had 1 kidney and an ectopic ureter. This problem appears to be highly heritable my dogs sister also bore 2 pups with ectopic ureters from 1 litter, and 1 other pup died soon after birth. The grandmother had 1 kidney which was found on US. Does anyone know of articles on this? I know single kidneys in humans are highly heritable. LJH ================== Subj: spayed dog & lg. glands Date: 96-11-10 21:29:35 EST From: Dov Lisner I've got an eight year old female lhasa apso mix that was brought in with enlaged mammary glands. All mammary glands producing small amount of milk. There's even a small amount of purulent vaginal discharge. Owner got this dog two years ago and says previous owner said dog was spayed. Never has had any signs of heat and owner is fairly observant. If dog isn't spayed i'd say she is showing classic signs of a false pregnancy and I'd even be worried about a potential pyo. I can't find any obvious spay scar but this isn'talways accurate especially at this age. The first question is: is it at all possible for a spayed dog to have these clin signs? If it's impossible then I'll just go in and spay the dog. If it is possible how the heck do I start to reasonably find out? Thank you, Dov Lisner ================== Subj: Re:spayed dog & lg. glands Date: 96-11-10 23:31:54 EST From: Adrenal See endocrinology board as well. Dave ================== Subj: Re:Spermac stain Date: 96-11-11 09:13:43 EST From: SGotwals Norm, Thanks for the info. What do you think your cost is per evaluation for the stain? How large of a volume do you have to purchase at a time? How long does the stain process take? Sounds like it may give us some good information. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:"spayed" female in estrus Date: 96-11-11 10:02:00 EST From: SGotwals Sue, The most common clinical reason that I Rx Cheque Drops is for bitches with an interestrous interval less than 120 days. Generally a bitch has fertility problems if there is not at least 120 days between heats. The label states that it is not to be used in bitches intended for breeding and I always inform the client. Cheque Drops has increased in use, in show and field dogs, for the reasons you mentioned as well as to increase coat for the show ring. There is some feeling that if a bitch is not going to be bred until a later time it may be better to prevent cycling to try and preserve "fertility" until needed. The belief is that it may prevent the development of cystic endometrial hyperplasia and pyometra. I tend to take a conservative approach...I don't like to fool with mother nature unless there is a clinical need so I do not advocate the use of Cheque Drops in valuable breedeing bitches unless clinically warranted. If the owners want to use Cheque drops I encourage them to have a litter firts.."to preserve their gentic base" incase the bitch is not fertile later. I know of bitches who had fertility problems afterwards and I also know of several bitches who where reproductively normal afterwards. You can breed the first heat after Cheque Drops, although there may be reduced fertility depending on how long they have been off the drops....some bitches come in season in a few weeks and others may take months. The clitoral hyperplasia and vaginitis as a result of the drops tends to regress after cessation of the drops. What has been others experience? Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Stud dog problems. Date: 96-11-11 10:07:31 EST From: SGotwals Sue, Are these swellings the bulbous glandis???? These may be normal swellings as a result of sexual excitement. If you extend the penis out of the sheath you will be able to inspect. If they are the bulbous glandis it may increase in size when you try to extend the penis. Is the dog exhibiting any clinical signs? Some male dogs may even swell during play. Have the owner check the area...she may notice the swelling comes and goes if it is the bulbous glandis. Scarlette ================== Subj: Anemia, Seizure, and Cycling Date: 96-11-11 15:06:16 EST From: AggieVet95 This case involves an 18 month old Alaska Malamute bitch that has been having abnormal cycles. She has been in good health in all other respects. The cycles have not followed much of a pattern, but seem to be along the line of the split cycling that the artic breeds may do. She has never become fully receptive to males. The owner called on emergency, the bitch had two episodes of seizure activity this weekend. The owners have never noticed any seizures before. Brought her in for bloodwork this morning. T4 is normal, all serum chemistries are normal, CBC is wihin normal range exept for an anemia 28 (38-55). Anemia is normochromic, normocytic, nonregenerative. What is the chance that the seizures and the anemia are both from estrogen influence? I know that both can be influenced by hormones, but I am wondering if it is truly common enough to be satisfied with that explanation for this situation. Any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated. :) ================== Subj: Re:Stud dog problems. Date: 96-11-11 19:41:56 EST From: Aussie Vet These swellings do not come and go and are not the bulbous glands. You can exteriorize the penis and the swellings remain, inside the sheath. Could they be lymph nodes? Thanks Sue ================== Subj: Re:Stud dog problems. Date: 96-11-11 21:47:44 EST From: SGotwals Sue, How far back along the sheath are they? Is there any prepucial drainage? Are they symetrical....I am trying to visualize what you are seeing....do they only occur in the days after a breeding or do they never go away? Thanks for the extra info...maybe someone else has seen something similar? Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Anemia, Seizure, and Cycl Date: 96-11-11 21:52:47 EST From: SGotwals How many seasons has the bitch had? For there to be systemic effects of estrogen you probably would need an ovarian cyst....if the bitch was cystic you would expect her to continually be in estrus. You could check a progesterone level after her next season to see if she is ovulating. Otherwise I would wnder about a genetic predisposition as a basis for the seizures in an 18 month old dog. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Spermac stain Date: 96-11-11 23:40:52 EST From: NRoskin Scarlet, The process of staining takes about 5 minutes. The detail on the head and midpiece is excellant. Would suspect would show cytoplasmic droplets very well. The kit we purchases was $142 ($10 shipping), get 50 ml of the 4 reagents(can be purchased in larger volume - just want some to get started) and will need to see how many slides it will do. Does contain alcohol so would expect some evaporation. Funny, use coplan jars, close tops, and yet seem, like with diff-quick, to get some degree of evaporation. So far we like it. What are your normal charges to do a semen evaluation. Our charges run between $60-90. Guess could add small fee for this type of stain. Talking about semen evaluation, we have a sperm counter, called Hemoque or Spermaque which is a specialized form of spectrophotometer. Have little cuvette for drop of semen, push filled cuvette into machine and get counts, expressed in Xmillions/cc, in 4-6 seconds. Nice little device but was expensive. Regards Norm ================== Subj: Re:Spermac stain Date: 96-11-12 09:25:29 EST From: SGotwals Norm, Thanks for the info. I am going to order the stain also. For a collection and semen analysis including sperm count(Unopette/Hemocytometer), morphology, motility assessment, and written report I generally charge $75----I don't know if this is really enough considering the time involved but it is an amount I and my clients seem to be comfortable with. If there is a semen problem then I usually send a culture to Cornell for myco, urea and bacterial growth---I charge an additional $80 plus actual FedEx charge. (Cornell charges $40 for the Repro Panel 4, and another $14/sensitivity). If it is a first time client and I spend a lot of time on the physical and discusions I also charge a $30 consultation charge. Did you calibrate your Spermaque for dog semen? Does it read based on opacity? Do you have a problem when the ejaculate is cellular? It definitely would be easier/quicker than counting on a hemocytometer :) !! Thanks Norm for the info.....Did you get your Vaginoscope yet?? Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Anemia, Seizure, and Cycl Date: 96-11-12 09:45:01 EST From: AggieVet95 The bitch has not had a complete or normal cycle yet. She seems to be having waves of being inticing to the stud dogs, but never will completely be recepetive. Yet, she is never completely out, either. Sorry this is so unscientific, we have not done any tracking of hormones yet, as the breeder had not planned on using this bitch for another year, and so had just been observing her behavior. Thank you for your help. I'll let you know if anything shows up on the ultrasound, but I am not expecting anything. (Just as an interesting aside, this bitch's littermate just failed his retina screening.) ================== Subj: Re:Spermac stain Date: 96-11-12 20:50:31 EST From: NRoskin Scarlet, No endoscope as yet. Need to do some shoping. But would really like to add to our repro services. The spermaque is precolibrated. Specialized instrument for that purpose alone. They sent, along with the instrument, a control cuvette that reads at 499M. If it reads on that level things are OK. Do not know of cellularity, e.g., wbcs, would make a great deal of difference in the count. Would image that very bloody semen would. Talking about bloody semen, have you seen tan semen. We collect a Briard that always puts out tan, beige, semen. When you look at it under the microscope looks great. We've ultrasound him - looks good. Just likes tan, I guess. Take Care Norm ================== Subj: Vulvar d/c in 15 yr sheltie Date: 96-11-13 20:50:22 EST From: HMCVCA I have a sweet old intact sheltie owned by a sweet old woman!! Yesterday she brought her in for a decreased appetite. Just over three months ago, the sheltie had 2 mastectomies. One biopsied out as a carcinoma and the other a tubular adenocarcinoma. At suture removal she had a red brownish vulvar discharge which I assumed was pre-estrus. Well she still has a discharge. The cytol: loaded with PMN's, some have rods and cocci and there are free bacteria on the slide. Non-cornified epithelial cells were also present. The CBC/chem revealed a neutrophilia, elev ALT (160), mild azotemia (bun=43) and elev cholesterol. I'm thinking that she probably has a low grade pyometra. The owner doesn't want another surgery . Is there any reasonable medical approach? Thanks, Heidi Casale ================== Subj: Re:Vulvar d/c in 15 yr shelt Date: 96-11-14 09:15:48 EST From: SGotwals Heidi, Would it be possible to get an ultrasound? Or maybe even abdominal xray to confirm the suspected pyometra, possible uterine mass, or possible mets? How old is she? It would be in the dogs best interest to have an OVH(if she doesn't already have mets from the mam tumors)....there is a PGF2a protocol for open pyometra but it is only a temporary treatment. In most bitches the pyometra will return after the next season if they don't become pregnant. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Spermac stain Date: 96-11-14 09:19:48 EST From: SGotwals Norm, I have seen tan/brown semen. I suspected it was "old" blood from a recent prostatitis flare up. The few dogs I had with tan/brown semen were older stud dogs with enlarged prostates. Semen quality was still okay. FWIW Scarlette ================== Subj: Galactostasis ? Date: 96-11-14 15:13:36 EST From: NPAHDAVE "Nancy" is a 5 year old Beagle , supposedly spayed although the present owners have only had her for one year. She presented with one large (grapefruit) sized mammary gland, which is not especially hot or painful. All her mammary glands are secreting a thin milky substance. After one week of hot packing and Amoxicillin, there has been no real improvement. This dog is not feeling sick, and has a normal temperature. Is this most likely seconday to a false pregnancy? and does it require treatment with a prolactin inhibitor?, or should we just watch and wait for her own hormone levels to come down? My understanding is that most or the prolactin inhibitors can cause significant vomiting/ How about Ovaban? - too many potential side-effects? Thanks for any help! Andrea R. Russo ================== Subj: Re:Vulvar d/c in 15 yr shelt Date: 96-11-14 20:56:02 EST From: SGotwals Just realized the age is in the title...sorry..<G> Scarlette ================== Subj: Neutered cat mating behavior Date: 96-11-14 21:08:44 EST From: M G8S I posted this on behavior panel, and they suggested the repro panel, so here goes. I have a neutered male cat patient about 6 yrs old that has begun exhibiting mating behavior on the owner's arm over the past month. The owner reports that the cat will begin by kneading his arm with his paws, and then he will extend his penis and rhythmically push with this back feet. The owner has seen a clear odorless viscous fluid produced. The cat has been treated extensively for lymphocytic plasmacytic stomatitis, but has been off all meds for 6 mos. or more. Why this new behaviour? WHat is the fluid? Since cats have no prostate, could it be from the bulbourethral glands? Should I be concerned that this is an indication of a medical condition, or is this cat just a "late bloomer"? Thanks for any suggestions! Melissa ================== Subj: Transcervical Insemination Date: 96-11-15 02:31:03 EST From: ScoVetHosp Does anyone have an address for Marion Wilson in New Zeeland? I hear she has special talent when it comes to the artificial transcervical insemination technique as used in Norway also Also does anyone have the correct e-mail address for a reproduction discussion group out of Cornell University ie CEFROREPRO ? Corry ================== Subj: German shephard ears Date: 96-11-15 13:54:12 EST From: VWK4 When do German shephard puppy ears stand up? I have a 20 week old puppy whose left ear is still down; his right ear, when alert, will stand straight up. The owner was wondering if he should be concerned that the left ear was abnormal. Should he be? Thanks for your info. on this. --VWK4 ================== Subj: Re:German shephard ears Date: 96-11-15 16:53:41 EST From: Dr zero Often one ear will stand before the other. If the pinna (ear) is too massive for its thickness, the ear won't stand. Also if the ear cartilage is damaged, then the ear may be too weak to support being fully erect. I have the owners massage the ears gently several times a day, one finger on each side of the pinna, giving more emphasis to the area where the ear folds over. I also suggest adding some cottage cheese to the diet and Vitamin C supplementation. 1. The massage keeps the owners busy and helps to calm the puppy. 2. Massaging the ear may increase circulation to the area and help nutrients get to the cartilage, which relies on diffusion to get nutrients for growth and repair. 3. Cottage cheese has a good amino acid balance which aids the development of cartilage cells. It is also easily digested and more easily absorbed, in case the pup is not digesting his puppy food adequately. Usually add 1/2 cup of cottage cheese, BID. 4. Here Vitamin C may be helpful as it is neccessary for connective tissue growth and repair. I would recommend 250 mg divided BID. Dogs are low end Vitamin C producers, which may drop too low in a stressed puppy therefore interfering with cartilage growth.. 5. Make sure intestinal parasitism has been controlled to assure nutrients are being absorbed adequately. 6. If the pup rough-houses too much with other pets or even people, he risks damaging the cartilage, resulting in an ear that won't stand erect. Pete ================== Subj: Re:Transcervical Inseminatio Date: 96-11-15 20:07:28 EST From: Watusi As a point of information, Cornell has 185 lists. FOUND IT! Send e-mail to listproc@cornell.edu (subj) Subscribe (body of email) SUBSCRIBE CAFEREPRO-L Now, if you get an error message, let me know, and I'll talk you through it. Becky ================== Subj: RE: Cornell's list --TYPO!!! Date: 96-11-15 20:19:54 EST From: Watusi Typo, drat those little typos. forget the last post [sigh] -- To: listproc@cornell.edu <subj> subscribe (body of e-mail) subscribe CAFEREPROD-L <your real name> little things mean a lot. <G> I know this works, cause I joined to test the thing! ;-) Now, I'll go unsub. ROFL Becky ================== Subj: Re:German shephard ears Date: 96-11-16 10:29:05 EST From: SGotwals Great points!! Sometimes taping the ear up also helps....I usually have best success with taping around 4 monthsof age. Tape as you would cropped ears, but you don't usually need quite as much support. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Transcervical Inseminatio Date: 96-11-16 10:38:56 EST From: SGotwals Corry, I believe you are talking about the Norwegian Transcervical Catheters. They can be ordered from a Dr. Fougner in Norway. I will look for the address. A few people in this country are using the technique with variable degrees of success. If you check with ICG (800-248-8099) they may have Dr. Wilson's address and phone/fax. The bitch has a dorsal fold blocking easy access to the cervix so it takes a lot of practice. I will get back to you with more info. George Govette from CLONE probably has been using the catheters longer than anyone else. Maybe Norm has something to add about the catheters. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Neutered cat mating behav Date: 96-11-16 10:55:16 EST From: SGotwals Melissa, You are right the fluid probably is from the bulbourethral glands. Has this owner had cat since a kitten? Any chance it was cryptorchid?? Does the penis have any spines?? I reposted to the endocrine board for their comments. I would wonder about some sort of hormonal imbalance. This behavior may be curbed with Ovaban---but you have to be concerned about side effects. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Transcervical Inseminatio Date: 96-11-16 11:58:07 EST From: NRoskin We use the catheters but very poorly and therefore, not as frequently as we should. It takes alot of practice but with that it can work very well. For me, there is a definite size limit since you have to palpate the cervix in order to manipulate it and pass the catheter. For me, in the large/giant breeds, it means surgery if the client wants semen deposited in the uterus. I would think that endoscopy would be the way to go on all bitches. May need to develop special instrument to assist the endoscope in finding opening. Remember seeing a paper 4-5 years ago from a vet in New Zealand who was getting thru the cervix with endoscopy. Because of here ability to deposit semen in the uterus her conception rates with frozen semen was excellant. ================== Subj: C- section timing Date: 96-11-16 21:10:44 EST From: Homerun T someone was telling me about using the date of progesterone rise and counting up from there to determine when to do your c section. what is the protocol for doing this ??? thanks -mm ================== Subj: Re:C- section timing Date: 96-11-17 09:25:50 EST From: NRoskin Even if you use the progesterone rise, still have a range of possible whelping dates. We measure the progesterone "fall" to determine when to do the C-section. We expect the progesterone to drop below 2ng/ml 24-48 hours before whelping. Therefore, when we have an elective section, we will have the owner measure body temp starting 5-7 days before a calculated whelping time and when temp begins to fall start checking progesterone. Another approach, calculate whelping from breeding dates and start checking progesterone to confirm. Norm My question for others: how much margin of error do you have in taking the pups "alittle early" - or how much full term do you need - would think - would be no harm if you did a section say 24-36 hours before natural whelping would have occurred.?????? ================== Subj: Persistent erection Date: 96-11-18 23:04:14 EST From: TrackerKip I am new to VIN and just starting to catch up on your previous discussions. However, I think this case is fairly unique and would appreciate any comments. "Billie" is a 7 yr old male Maltese belonging to a breeder client. He came inside from her kennel run one afternoon with an erect penis protruding from his sheath. The owner became alarmed when she noticed that things hadn't changed the following morning (Saturday). She sought help from an emergency clinic which gave the dog a dex inj. and sent her home with Panlog to lubricate him with. On Sunday evening she reached me by phone and said the dog was acting normal but that his penis was hanging out! On Monday afternoon she brought the dog in. Billie was BAR but seemed to ha ve a persistent erection: the shaft and bulbs of the penis were engorged about 2/3 what would probably be a full erection, with 2 inches of the shaft protruding beyond the sheath. The end of his penis was cool and dark on the surface, but was not sensitive. Hewas eatin and peeing normally. There were no bitches in heat at the kennel. There was no prior hx of illness. Billie had been tried at stud years ago, but she did not continue to use him because he was "not interested" and was never interested in bitches.There were no management changes recently. I proceeded as follows: Billie was neutered the following day, and the penis was lubricated and pushed inside the sheath, with a pursestring suture to minimize the opening. He was givin a shot of estrogen and sent home. 3 days later he was BAR and about 25% less swollen. Today is 6 days since surgery, he is only mildly swollen. The pursestring was removed and the penis stays where it belongs. The surfac of th end of penis is sloughing bloody fluid. Hehas been and is still on antibiotics , we will recheck next week. Has anyone encountered a problem like this? There definitely was not hair causing the prolem (he's shave quite short). Any other ideas on treatment? Thanks, Sue Tasillo ================== Subj: Re:C- section timing Date: 96-11-19 08:15:20 EST From: SGotwals Bitches whelp 65 +/- 1 day form the LH peak irregardless of when bred. The more accurate you are in estimating the LH surge the more accurate you can pick a safe c-section date. If you are using the intial rise you can narrow your c-section date down to a few days and then fine tune at the end. There are not absolute values to determine an intial rise...you have to correlate it to each bitch. But generally speaking a bitch has progesterone levels less than 1.0 ng/ml prior to the LH surge and they rise to 1.5 to 2.0 ng/ml around the time of the surge and continue rising to >5 ng/ml by time they are 4 days post LH surge. For this you want to use quantitative progesterones instead of the in-office kits for more accurracy. You should get a feeling for predicting due dates. Whenever you do a timing predict a due date from your estimation of the initial rise...see how close you are. If you find, with your timing method, you are very close in predicting due dates then you can use this to predict a safe window for c-sections. FWIW I feel with practice you can narrow a due date down to a 3 day window using the intial rise method, and then you can fine tune it based on clinical signs when the time arrives. Scarlette ================== Subj: hcg/retained testicles Date: 96-11-19 17:07:35 EST From: SAHDVM I searched the data base and read the recent post about gnrh and hcg being used to determine if a male has retained testicles: << Serum testosterone Conc, ng/ml Dog Cat Resting Testosterone 0.5- 5.0 <0.05 - 3.0 4 hr post(20u/lb IM) hCG 4.6- 7.5 3.1 - 9.0 1 hr post (1 ug/lb IM) GnRH 3.7 - 6.2 5.0 - 12.0 >>> Just to clarify-is this a data chart for intact dogs? Am I running the HCG *OR* the GnRH test but not both? If my patient does not have its testosterone levels rise to these levels then can I assume that the dog is neutered? If the levels do increase then I should assume that he is intact? My client also wants to know if I an ultrasound or MRI will also show the testicles-which is the preferred method? Thanks, Marti ================== Subj: testosterone level? Date: 96-11-19 19:10:42 EST From: PFlecky we have a stray, 6-8 month old puppy who has no palpable testicles in the scrotum...so the question is, was he neutered at a shelter at a young age (no tatoo evident on abdomen), or are both testicles retained... someone is adopting the puppy from the clinic (severe degloving injuries to paw and tail are healing very well now after 37 days!), what do we advise as far as neuter??? (1) do nothing (I'm reluctant to advise this option!) (2) exploratory surgery (3) can we run a testosterone level, and if so, what is the normal level? (even in neutered dogs, don't the adrenal glands produce some testosterone? (one source I have says castrated adult dogs have a baseline less than 20 pg/ml - Feldman and Nelson, 2nd ed.) (4) am I forgetting something basic here? (other than an obvious scar or tatoo which we haven't noticed) Ultrasound ? is it easiest just to recommend surgery or testosterone? thanks!! ================== Subj: Re:Persistent erection Date: 96-11-20 00:26:22 EST From: Dr zero Sounds like Paraphimosis. When the bulb of the penis swells in an improper location it can result in a continuous erection as the blood can not leave the penis for it to shrink and pull back into the sheath. If the paraphimosis persists too long, then there can be vascular damage to the penis as well as damage to the mucosal surface of the penis from dryin and/or lack of blood supply. If the length of circulatory lack was too long, you might end up having to amputate the penis or do a perineal urethrostomy. Time is a critical factor in getting them back in place. Anesthetizing the patient, and chilling the penis with iced water can reduce them in size or using drugs. If these means are not successful, you may have to incise the sheath longitudinally at the point where the bulb cannot retract to allow the venous blood to exit the erectile tissue. After a 24 hours it may be too late as too much tissue damage may have occurred. Pete ================== Subj: Galactostasis Date: 96-11-20 10:34:24 EST From: NPAHDAVE Does anyone have any suggestions regarding my care presented on 11/19? I realize that the board was "undergoing renovations" last weekend, but I've gotten no replies. Thanks, Dr. Andrea Should I repost on Endocrinology Board? ================== Subj: Re:Galactostasis ? Date: 96-11-20 20:51:12 EST From: SGotwals Andrea, Sorry for the failure to respond-- If the milk production is from a false pregnancy it will most likely resolve on its own with time. Watch for mastitis. Is there a possibilty that another young dog or kitten has been nursing on her?? False pregnancies are a normal hormonal event and do not need to be treated unless the lactation is excessive. The prolactin inhibitors do cause vomiting intially. Besides Ovaban you can also use Cheque Drops for 10 days to decrease the signs. You could check a progesterone level, it would probably be low by this time but if it was elevated then you would know there definitely is ovarian tissue remaining. Is the vulva slightly swollen?? Usually in intact bitches the vulva will stay slightly enlarged until anestrous. Please let us know what you find out. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:hcg/retained testicles Date: 96-11-20 20:57:15 EST From: SGotwals Marti, Yes this chart is for intact dogs....you can run either a GnRH or HCG stim. GnRH causes endogenous LH release, whereas HCG mimics LH. If you get elevated testosterone levels then the dogwould have a retained testicle. A retained testicle may be difficult to find on ultrasound due to size and location. Check with your ultrasonographer for his/her comment on that. I am not familiar with an MRI for finding a retained testicle---that would seem to be a very expensive way to go. The hormonal test would be a first step. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:testosterone level? Date: 96-11-20 20:58:50 EST From: SGotwals See the previous few posts. A baseline testosterone would not be enough. Try a GnRh stim. Scarlette ================== Subj: Pseudopreg? Date: 96-11-20 22:21:49 EST From: Rightcourt Can a blood progesterone (ICG) be used to determine pseudopreg? I saw a 3yr old female Akita who has had one litter a year and a half ago. Since then the owner has not noticed her being in heat. Starting about a week ago the owner notice the dog was passing some blood clots in her urine. Temperature was normal, mammary tissue was swollen and milk was expressible, urine analysis was normal, abd palpation was difficult.,vulva was slightly swollen. I recommended an ultrasound. I had previously recommended a blood progesterone could help determine if her dog had ovulated and therefore the owner had missed the estrus. The test showed a low reading. What gives?? Rich ================== Subj: herpes Date: 96-11-20 23:28:28 EST From: Ren an ste hi, I have a ethical question for you. A female German Shepherd that is 3 years old had on vaginal exam multiple vesicle-like lesions. After talking to a reproduction specialist she mentioned that they could be consistent with a herpes infection. The status of the litter that this bitch is from is not available. The owner of the bitch is wondering about the ethics of breeding her. He is more concerned about perpetuating the disease in the stud that he uses than he is about producing a litter of pups that may have herpes. Will we have to worry about all the further bitches that the male breeds, if indeed this bitch is carrying the virus? thanks, renee ================== Subj: Re:Pseudopreg? Date: 96-11-21 09:46:30 EST From: SGotwals Rich, In a nonpregnant bitch progesterone remains elevated for aproximately the same duration as a pregnancy. Generally a false pregnancy will be expressed when progesterone drops; correllating to the time they would have whelped. If the bitch is in a false pregnacy then she probably was in heat two to three months earlier. Is she a kennel dog or a house dog? any intake males on the property? How many dogs does the owner have? Were there are bitches in season recently? To find a "silent" heat have the owner tissue her vulva three times a week. When she notices any discharge or swelling bring the bitch in for vaginal cytology. You can also check a progesterone monthly to find a missed estrus. An ultrasound would be useful to identify any uterine or ovarian problem. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:herpes Date: 96-11-21 10:12:39 EST From: SGotwals Renee, There are several posts in the pediatrics folder---you may want to review them. Herpes is a very common respiratory virus that causes neonatal mortality if the bitch is infected during gestation. I recently had a client loose an 11 pup litter in 72hr with herpes. The client talked to Dr. Carmichael at Cornell-- he told her herpes is mostly a problem in young bitches who become infected during gestation and that she most likey would have a normal litter next breeding. Herpes is killed by drying and most any disinfectant. ( This client went away the week before the pups were born and a breeder friend had kept the bitch, we believe the bitch picked up the infection there(the friend has 20 dogs)). Some bitches will remain persistantly infected and have problems with subsequent litters although this is not as common. If the male has been shown in competition there is a good chance he has already been exposed to herpes virus. Experimentally infected dogs have mild URI signs with conjuctivitis. If you are planning to breed this bitch she could be bred by AI. But you may want to try and determine if the leisons are from herpes. Scarlette ================== Subj: re:testosterone level Date: 96-11-21 11:12:33 EST From: PFlecky thanks for the input - i am new to posting at VIN and I hadn't checked previous postings before I asked my question... I only noticed that the topic was recently discussed when I went to check for an answer! (sorry, now I'll know to check!) thanks again! PFlecky ================== Subj: Wire haired Griffon? Date: 96-11-21 20:04:37 EST From: LightfootT I'm posting this for a colleague that is in a wire-haired pointing Griffon club ( I'm a bird person - haven't the foggiest what this breed looks like..) The general question concerns genetic disease predisposition, especially those syndromes that may be compounded by line-breeding. I know its a vague question, so thanks for your patience and any answers. X Teresa ================== Subj: Re:Wire haired Griffon? Date: 96-11-21 23:44:04 EST From: Watusi ahem -- A few weeks back I posted *looking* for WHPG -- the ones that actually still hunt, not the AKC ones. <G> Never found a colleague treating one. Then you step right up. LOL I've found lots of their websites, if that might help. Becky ================== Subj: Re:Wire haired Griffon? Date: 96-11-22 07:17:14 EST From: SGotwals Teresa, Dr. Patterson at UP is working with the AKC on a program of listing genetic dieases of various breeds. Also Jean Dodds group keeps a breed list of genetic diease. They are a large breed dog so they would be expected to have many of the large breed problems...hip dysplasia...etc. Any time you line breed you narrow the genetic base concentrating both good and bad faults. You can calculate degrees of relation then go back and try to find information on the dogs occurring with the most frequency in the pedigree. They are not a large breed so I would think it would be difficult not to line breed to some degree. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Wire haired Griffon? Date: 96-11-22 12:03:27 EST From: Watusi Something to keep in mind -- The AKC dogs aren't registered by their ability to perform. They are registered solely by pedigree (and they can't tell us *yet* if the pedigree is accurate, although they are moving toward DNA in their registry). However, there are several other groups registering this breed that only allow registration based on pedigree AND demonstrated performance AND clean hips/eyes/etc. These groups also determine which breedings are sanctioned by the registry. These animals would be expected to have fewer defects than the AKC dogs, and to eventually bear little relation to the AKC dogs of the same name. Becky ================== Subj: C-section Anesthesia Date: 96-11-22 13:43:30 EST From: ScoVetHosp As with the previous writer, I have also found that "masking" the bitch with either Halothane or Isofluorane has been very successful. However I do a fair number of Bulldog C-sections as well as Bull Mastiff's and it is pretty difficult to hold on to some of these bitches while you are trying to mask them down.. Melissa Goodman from ICG recently told me she had a Golden bitch put under with propofol very successfully. I am hesitant to use it but it would certainly overcome some of the difficulties encountered with my present technique. I would like to hear from others who have used this as to how well the bitch does and how lively the pups are as you deliver them. Corry ================== Subj: Re:C-section Anesthesia Date: 96-11-22 18:33:45 EST From: Bewit1164 We have had the best luck on Bostons/Bulldogs/Frenchies and other Brach. breeds using Demerol and a local ONLY. No gas of any kind. It is short acting, and the bitches wake up just as we are finishing closing. The pups are unaffected and are very vigorous. We've found the less drugs given, the less chance for complications. Isofluorane sometimes causes bitches to act unpredictably w/their pups for a day or 2. I have not noted this when using Demerol. Hope this helps, Wendy ================== Subj: Re:C-section Anesthesia Date: 96-11-22 22:25:01 EST From: NRoskin Use mostly oxymorphone (1cc/30#) and local. After surgery will reverse oxymorphone with nalloxin (equal to quantaties of oxymorphone). Most of the bitches can walk out of the hospital. Occasionally, had to mask, with iso, a few of the bitches who were very restless in remove the pups from the uterus. For those who want to mask down and have problems consider using some oxymorphone before, can be given SQ if willing to wait 10 minutes. Can also give the pups a drop or two of nalloxin under their tongues; most of the times the pups are doing fine and doesnot seem to be necessary. In another discussion on vetplus-l, someone suggested using maricain rather than xylocain, since it can last up to six hours which would help the bitch with local pain from the incision. ================== Subj: Re:C-section Anesthesia Date: 96-11-22 22:41:44 EST From: ScoVetHosp Wendy I assume you give the demerol i.v., at what dose? Do you have a problem with hypotension due to this? Is it adequate to allow intubation? We generally hook all our C-sections up to i.v. fluids and pre- oxygenate. Do you use glycopyrolate or atropine prior to the demerol? Corry ================== Subj: Re:Frozen Semen Date: 96-11-22 23:19:59 EST From: DrFASTTALK Is anyone here familar with an outfit in Portland Or that does frozen semen after the owner sends the semen to them like in extended fresh semen methods? The info i got said it porduced very fertile semen with a decent number of puppies? Thanks, mona ================== Subj: Re:C-section Anesthesia Date: 96-11-23 20:28:55 EST From: SGotwals Dr. Paula Moon form Cornell is curerntly conducting a study on this subject. She is looking for field data. If you are interested in helping with the study she can be contacted: for the study: Dr. Paula Moon FAX: 607-253-3271 email: PFM4@cornell.edu Telephone: 607-253-3271 She has a questionarre to complete after a c-section. She would greatly appreciate any data you may have. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:C-section Anesthesia Date: 96-11-23 20:30:57 EST From: SGotwals Has anyone else tried Profofol? it is considered contraindicated in women for c-sections due to its unpredicable drop in blood pressure. Wonder if this would be a factor in bitches with large litters?? Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Frozen Semen Date: 96-11-23 20:43:57 EST From: SGotwals Mona, What you describe is a ship and freeze. I believe the group is ICSB(International Canine Semen Bank). This process adds an additional handling step so you would expect that it would not be as ideal as collecting onsite. If a dog has good quality semen the process should work. Ship and freeze would offer the possibilty of cryopreservation of dogs not located near a freezing center. If you follow AKC's gudelines for record keeping and straw identification I would wonder if semen frozen in this manor would meet there criteria for registration. You always need to be a skeptic when taking someones word about their degree of success with frozen semen. Often the results are selective and not across the board. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Wire haired Griffon? Date: 96-11-23 20:47:50 EST From: Jo Vet Becky, WHPG are pretty unusual, but since you've never met a practioner who treated one, I thought I'd raise my hand. I lived with two for about six months in Tennessee - owner was a hunter and tho the dogs hadn't hunted in a couple of years they were good stock. Also, treated at least one once here in Maryland. Don't know much about the breed, but my impression is that they are very hardy stock, and have minimal hereditary problems. I'm sure there's some problems out there, but haven't heard of any. For those of you who haven't seen them, imagine Benji crossed with a German Shorthaired Pointer. They have GSHP coloration, are a bit bigger than that, and have Benji type coat and wiry, bearded face. They look like big, ugly mutts (sorry!). At the time I lived with two, I had two greyhounds. I'd walk a greyhound, and the owner of the WHPG would walk his. Everyone fawned over my dogs, and thought his were scarey mutts. Needless to say, this created much tension, as my dogs were free track rescues, and his cost BIG bucks and were of premium bloodlines!!!! WHPG clubs can be reached via advertisements in hunting magazines. Joanne ================== Subj: Re:Wire haired Griffon? Date: 96-11-23 22:21:58 EST From: Watusi My client is getting two pups shortly -- one for hunting, one to finish as a drug dog. He did a lot of studying before he picked a breeder, so I'm hopeful. Then, I'll have more info to share. ;-) Becky ================== Subj: Re:Frozen Semen Date: 96-11-24 13:18:01 EST From: NRoskin Scarlet, AKC requires 3 photos of the male whose semen is collected for freezing. Then each of the straws that are frozen requires, Date of freezing, Breed, and AKC number. To "ship and freeze" would likely require the veterinarian making the collections to photo the dog the first time he's collected and send copy of AKC registration. This would likely meet the AKCs criteria. It would enable stud owners to freeze semen when not near a hospital/clinic/facility that could. The process of "ship and freeze" should be reasonably reliable - it may require a modification to the extenders that are presently being used to freeze semen on site. The additional step may require the studs semen to be of good quality. We will not freeze semen if of poor quality. Usually want the semen to have good concentration (min. of 75-100 million per cc), have of motility of atleast 65-70%, and velocity or progressive motility (P # 1-5, 5 the best) of P3. Thinking back to days when I worked at the Central Ohio Breeding Ass., evaluating and freezing bull semen, recall that semen we collected was incubated overnight before freezing. Realize that bull semen is very different than canine semen but think dependent on coming up with the right extender for the overnight storage before freezing. You sounded alittle skeptical about frozen semen. Seen various statistics on its success. Given a reliable semen bank, with consistant results, alot of the statistics are influenced by the type of insemination, with surgical being the highest, next transcervical; I've seen papers reporting as high as 86% success but the likely % over all the smen banks would be like 70%. The Semen bank you mentioned, believe started by a Dr. Platz, who has done work for a long time with frozen semen. Seen some of the semen frozen using that technique, pellets, and the thawed semen looked good. We had one successfull pregnancy using their semen, out of 1 breeding, guess that's 100% (just kiding :). Regards Norm ================== Subj: Re:C-section Anesthesia Date: 96-11-24 16:05:39 EST From: SHELLDOC We've used propofol (followed by isoflurane) on about 5 c-sections. Induction and recovery was very smooth. In 3 of the cases, the pups popped out screaming almost as if they had been vaginally delivered. The other one or two sections the pups were a bit sluggish, but survived and did fine. I've been a lot happier with this protocol than I have been with Iso alone. Mary Ann ================== Subj: breeding Date: 96-11-24 22:05:44 EST From: LSidney I have a client with a 2 yr old Lhasa, never bred before. On Wednesday vaginal cytol revealed approx 80% superficial cells, and she was still bleeding. I had them start to breed every other day beginning on Thurs., but she will not stand for the male at all. How can I tell whether she's just not rewady yet vs. she does not know what to do? They have tried three times now with no success. I have had them hold her for breeding but that does not work either. Should I not have them hold her? Is she just not ready? Any suggestions? Would a progesterone level help(although turnaround time may make this a moot point). Thanks for your help. ================== Subj: Re:breeding Date: 96-11-25 22:39:01 EST From: KITS ZOO Sidney, A progesterone would definantely help.!! Maybe your dogs have finally bred by now? Other helpful info could be gained by Vaginoscopy. Since she was still bleeding and mostly cornified I would assume(hopefully) she was not about to go into diestrous and therefore was either still early or just not willing to stand for the male. It is hard to interpret someone elses idea of 80% cornified so I don't know how much import to place on the fact that she is not 100% . How long has she been in season? Have you checked her for obstructions of the vagina? If the male objects to your holding the bitch and won't mount then that is when I usually opt for AI. (once I know they are in the fertile period) Progesterone could be done quickly if you ordered a kit next day from ICG or sent to one of many labs now doing them every day. Check the smear again (it is now about 5-6 days since your last one) and see if you feel degree of cornification is increasing . You also might try to do vaginoscopy with a long otoscope head in this small breed and get some idea of vaginal wrinkling. See previous posts on ovulation timing & discussion of vaginoscopy by Scarlette. Are you comfortable doing AI's? If they haven't bred yet its may be time to do one. Kit Kampschmidt, DVM (aka K9obgyn) ================== Subj: Repost Date: 96-11-26 01:02:29 EST From: Adrenal ================== Subj: strep infection Date: 96-11-25 21:29:58 EST From: PKVET Posted on: America Online Im not sure this is in the right cat. but one of our clients bred their male sheltie to a bitch that aborted a litter of puppies about 3 weeks early/. The placenta and puppies were cultured and revealed a strep infection. Does this have anything to do with the male and could she have transferred the infection to him at the time of breeding. ================== Subj: not standing Date: 96-11-26 16:00:31 EST From: DrMeow I have a client with a 2 yr old Husky who won't stand for breeding. They've tried her on 2 cycles, and I've checked vaginal smears on the last cycle to help them, but I've never used the progesterone tests, etc. and have no experience with them. I've just read back over the last month and a half of this board and picked up some info, but could someone give me a basic overview? My repro experience has been limited to convincing most of my clients to spay and neuter, with an occasional C-section and a few AI's based on vag. smears. These clients are not breeders, but would like to breed this particular dog. They also own the male, and they are housed together all the time. I recommended they separate them for a while before she's ready to stand, because I think the male is constantly bothering her, but they cannot separate them. From reading the boards, it seems I'm way behind the times in not checking hormone levels, but frankly, I've never had anyone request assistance before, beyond vaginal smears. Most of the "breeders" in my area are people who keep 30 hunting dogs out back and throw them all together a few times a year to get litters. They don't even have their dogs on heartworm preventative, much less want help with timing ovulation! Any help would be appreciated in getting started with this. Should I use the in house tests? We send our regular labwork to the local human hospital. Thanks Karen ================== Subj: chronic erection Date: 96-11-26 20:09:47 EST From: ScoVetHosp I have been presented with a 8 year old intact male Sheltie with a chronically engorged penis. The Glans and shaft of the penis have become discolored to a dark red or mahogany color and all of our efforts to reduce the swelling with ice, 50% dextrose or cold water. There is no thrusting and very little feeling in the distended penis. With general anesthetic and manual compression I have been able to reposition the penis in the prepuce and the dog can urinate. The bulbo-urethral glands also swell when the penis is prolapsed to examine it. This sheltie has been on prednisone 5mg every other day for several years to control Granulomatous Meningoencephalitis. It has also had a recent bout with hepatitis which was controlled quickly with antibiotics. There is a bitch at home but she is not in heat and he has been in our hospital for 24 hour and still is quite swollen. Of course we are concerned about necrosis of the penis, however, I have not been able to find any thing on this problem in the reference books that I have. Thanks for any help you can lend. Dr. Mac. ================== Subj: Re:chronic erection Date: 96-11-27 00:17:02 EST From: Watusi Thromboembolism is supposed to be a major cause. A previous rec. was to use aspirin, just in case. I have read that prostate prroblems might be another cause. I sent you some abstracts. I can talk you through db searching, if you'd like. Becky ================== Subj: Re:chronic erection Date: 96-11-27 13:28:00 EST From: ScoVetHosp Becky, How do I retrieve the abstracts? Yes, I would like to do a db search. thanks Dr. Mac ================== Subj: Re:chronic erection Date: 96-11-27 15:21:22 EST From: Watusi Ok -- I used the Search the New DB, chose All Databases and used the search term penis erection on one search. I used priapism on another search. If the new db is offline while under repair, just use the old db. You'll get a tad fewer responses, but enough to cover. Does that help? E-mail if you need more. Becky ================== Subj: Re:Strep infection Date: 96-11-28 04:25:16 EST From: Bewit1164 Yes, there could be a transferrence, but it's possible that the stud had it to start with and gave it to the bitch. In cases like this, I have used Ciprofloxacin on both dogs prior to breeding, starting as soon as the bitch comes into heat. I also flush the prepuce w/a solution of Betadine & Saline, followed by a saline rinse. This flush is repeated the day before the first breeding, then the day of breeding a flush of warm saline alone just before breeding will ensure that debris which is harmless to the male, is not carried into the uterus of the bitch. The antibiotic gets into the seminal fluid and should kill any strep that is there. It is used on the bitch as a precaution. After breeding, I switch to Amoxicillin, and have kept bitches on it throughout their pregnancy with no ill effects. As always, this is for extreme cases where nothing else has worked. I find the source of infection (very often beta strep) is more the fault of the stud than the bitch in cases such as this. Bacteria that would be considered normal flora in the male are not welcome inhabitants of a pregnant uterus. If the strep was NOT the cause of the abortion, it is most probably endocrine related - the use of Soloxine or Synthroid in the bitch has helped this scenario as well as monitoring progesterone levels throughout the pregnancy 1x a week. If levels begin to drop below normal maintenance levels, supplemental Regu-Mate can be administerd to hold the pregnancy. I have used ALL of the above methods combined on one Boston Terrier bitch with a similar case history (including the progesterone), and she carried to term and had 2 healthy puppies. Follow up to 5 mo. on the pups showed no problems with them. The tricky part when using progesterone and doing a c-section is deciding when to w/draw it, especially if there were multiple breeding dates. Hope this helps. ================== Subj: Pregnant Addisonian Date: 96-11-28 10:37:38 EST From: K9obgyn I need some input as to the best way to approach labor and delivery in a 4 yr old Pointer bitch with Addison's. The owner researched the disease and heredity and concluded she wanted to try for one more litter from this "valuable" dog. Now I am faced with a very pregnant Pointer due in about 2 weeks. She is doing very well on Florinef only, and has been for 6-8 mos.(since diagnosis she was weaned off pred) She has had 2 litters before the addisons disease cropped up. Have heard stories of others who tried allowing an Addisons bitch to go in labor and deliver, only to have her crater in labor from the stress and DIE. Does anyone have a success story to share with me? How might others approach this. I am leaning toward C-section with short term pred, IV Nacl, and close monitoring etc. Other option would seem to be giving steroids at fairly high "stress" doses as labor get near and tapering off, if possible, during lactation. Does anyone know how they approach this in human medicine? Kit Kampschmidt, DVM ================== Subj: Re:Pregnant Addisonian Date: 96-11-28 13:06:47 EST From: Adrenal See endo folder. Dave ================== Subj: Re:Pregnant Addisonian Date: 96-11-28 13:34:17 EST From: Jo Vet I have a client who suspects hereditary renal disease in her collies. She has had 2 littermates die of renal problems very young, and I believe has had another affected litter. She has the father of both litter (the genetic suspect) and one daughter, sib to the 2 "affected" littermate. ( By the way, the one histopath I saw on a puppy said there was renal dysplasia, but that infection killed the puppy... and the pathologist thought the dysplasia may be congential but was not the classic hereditary disease.... don't know what to think about the report....) Any way, this is of course her best young male, and she is a very responsible breeder, she doesn't want to give him up, or keep breeding until it's clear that the pups are truly sick with hereditary disease, and there are lots of offspring on the ground and in the gene pool. I suggested a test mating, but I actually have never set up a test mating and do not have repro or genetics books handy to tell me the right way to do it. It is valid to set up a father/daughter cross, or should we look for a sib to the father (suspect)? Could someone give me a little genetics primer here? Or send me to a good source? Thanks! Joanne ================== Subj: Hereditary Renal Disease Date: 96-11-28 21:57:44 EST From: Jo Vet Ooops! my last post was sent under the wrong subject.... please take a peek at it.... I'm looking for the proper protocol for "test mating" a male who is a suspected carrier of JRD... Thanks Joanne ================== Subj: Re:Renal disease Date: 96-11-29 01:17:23 EST From: Watusi Jo - I do not know the inheritance pattern of this in collies. In other breeds, it's been show to be a recessive. Therefore, if puppies get it, they would have had to get a recessive gene from each parent. (And if the parents were not sick with the disease, they would have to be heterozygous for the condition (carriers). So, in shih tzus, for example, this male would already have been implicated. However, I do not know if it's a recessive in collies. (Although I would expect it to be much easier to clear from the breed if it *were* a dominant trait. Know what I mean?) I sent you information on genetic testing facilities. (And to help make Chaim happy <G>, my credentials.) Becky Lundgren, DVM ================== Subj: spayed or not? Date: 96-11-29 17:39:36 EST From: Dov Lisner I've got a 7 year old spayed female Terrier mix that my client inherited 3 years ago. Was told dog was spayed. Never has come into heat. Brought in three weeks ago. Has enlarged mammary glands. All producing milk. At that time I noticed a slight amount of purulent vaginal discharge. Owner now reports a blood tinged vaginal discharge. My question is : is there anything other than ovarian regrowth that can cause these clinical signs? I don't want to start getting in to any diagnostics if this is the only logical diagnosis. If it is, I'll just take this dog to surgery. Again, does anyone know of any other possibilities for these clinical signs? Thank you, Dov Lisner ================== Subj: Quick ? on OT Date: 96-11-29 18:19:44 EST From: ALHDVM Hi folks. I was planning to do a surgical frozen semen implant today, and got cold feet at the last minute, based on the below info. Will probably go ahead and do the insemination tomorrow unless someone delivers a big WHOA. Timing was done at another practice, to save the bitch owner a long drive, but it was someone I trust. 1st day of heat was 11-12 LHs were run daily (using the ICG snap) - starting 11/18. All were negative until a faint positive showed on 11/23, and a strong positive on 11/24. (Calling the 24th day 0, today is day 5). No further LHs were run. A StatPro progesterone was run 2 days ago, and showed low spot gone, high spot present. Same story yesterday (bless him for running it on Thanksgiving.) The bitch was brought to me today and I ran another StatPro - same story. No low spot, high spot possibly fading, but still obviously there. Todays VS 90% cornified. Vaginoscopy shows a nice cobblestoned appearance. Bitch doesn't flag for our male, but she's a Saluki. Bitch owner thinks her male is less interested than he might be for a bitch in her prime. Semen quantity is very limited, and owner wants the best possible shot at success. If only we hadn't run those foolish progesterones, the water wouldn't be so muddy now! Any advice you can give me would be terrific! Thanks - Ann ================== Subj: Re:Quick ? on OT Date: 96-11-29 21:50:21 EST From: Nanjenni You should breed the dog on Monday. Based on the information presented, your last status pro would indicate that you are under just 7.5 and therefore breeding 48 hours from that result, should result in pregnancy. Do the surgical implant based on your comments about the males semen. Good luck! -Nroskin ================== Subj: Re:Quick ? on OT Date: 96-11-30 00:02:04 EST From: Watusi BTW, Adrenal says he'd go ahead and breed -- unless one of these bright repro people has another idea. <G> Becky ================== Subj: Re:not standing Date: 96-11-30 10:58:49 EST From: K9obgyn Karen, I find many dogs who live together unable to breed. I certainly recommend separation of the dogs while she is in heat, only putting them together for 10-20 mins a day once she is estrual. Timing her with an in-office progesterone kit is fairly simple and breeding based on progesterone rise has been covered in many other posts.You may need to AI if they can't accomplish the feat once she is in the fertile period. Some females just refuse to stand for males they know (and detest?) ;) Occasionally a shot of hCG or GnRH to the male will increase libido enough in him for 24-48 hrs that he may successfully mount her (or be collected). If they don't want to spend money on this then just try AI every 3-4 days from mid-cycle (full cornification) until she is out. Kit Kampschmidt, DVM ================== Subj: Re:Repost Date: 96-11-30 11:02:30 EST From: K9obgyn PKVET, I'm intersested to know what part of the placenta and pups were cultured to reveal the strep? Was this material passed by the female at home then brought in to a vet, what tissues specifically were cultured, etc. Are we very confident that this was not a contaminant? Was it grown from multiple different tissues? I'm just curious. Kit Kampschmidt, DVM ================== Subj: Re:Quick ? on OT Date: 96-11-30 11:16:19 EST From: K9obgyn Ann, I've been there! If low spot is gone you are probably post LH, so my thinking is the LH peak they saw was true on 11-24. Is the high spot faint compared to what you are used to seeing? I've seen "two dotters" sent out for quantitative prog that were above 7.5. I usually send out a prog on these type bitches and sometimes fall back on breeding 2 days after they go over 5 ng/ml. You could still be seeing 2 dots with the bitch over 5 ng/ml . Other possibility would be inadequate leutinization, but I hate to bring that up. ;) I usually go with my gut instinct taking all the other factors in; vaginoscopy, smears, behavior, whatever . Good luck!! Kit ================== Subj: Re:Quick ? on OT Date: 96-11-30 14:28:24 EST From: SGotwals Always best to back up in office kits with a quantitative value---the kits do not loose color in a linear fashion so it isdifficult to estimate a quantitative value from the results you obtained. ICG's LH kit does work very well, with the most fertile days for being day 5 or 6 post LH.... (and you would expect the progesterone to well >5ng/ml by this time). Just a note when using Status-LH....bitches will have a small spike of LH early in early proestrus...recruitment of follicles for development...so if you start too early you may pick up this LH fluctuation and mistake it for the LH surge....progesterones differentiate between the two. Good luck hope the breeding goes well. Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Renal disease Date: 96-11-30 14:41:54 EST From: SGotwals I am involved with the BTCA (Bull Terriers)....we have hereditary nephritis. Currently we are using the urine protein/creatinine ratio to pick up suspected cases. If the dog has persisatnt proteinurea and all other causes are eliminated we try to get the people to do an ultrasound guided biopsy....and of course not breed the dog. By the time bt's go into overt kidney failure with blood changes they may have already been used for breeding. This testing raises a red flag...but futher diagnostics are needed to rule in/out kidney disease. IMO...if I had my way I would urge that both parents and all siblings were eliminated from the gene pull....most of these conditions are recessive in nature and when breeders keep close relatives for breeding they are perpetuating the problem. To make gentic change, selection pressure has to be applied....the greater the selection pressure the faster the change. As for test matings you would need to breed to an affected individual(double recessive)....to the test animal....many times to get a significant number for evaluation. Problem is-- all the offspring would be at best carriers and if your test animal is a carrier 50% would be affected and die of kidney failure....... Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Frozen Semen Date: 96-11-30 15:02:36 EST From: SGotwals Hi Norm... You are right <G> I did sound skeptical of "reported" success rates....I practice in the back yard of two different freezing camps as well as have several friends who use a third group on the West coast....each have their successes...but from what I see their reported success rates are inflated...If you pick out the best breedings where all the criteria (great semen, fertile bitch, accurate OVT etc..) then the rate is probably around the 70% mark,,,but IMHO the "across the board" rate is about 50%. I do not feel there is one perfect system....I think the various groups are probably comparable. I would love to see more sharing on the subject of success rates at various post thaw motility levels and number of live sperm inseminated. What do you(open to everyone working with frozen semen) feel your success rates are for 60% post thaw, 50% post thaw, 40% post thaw or 30% post thaw motility?? What is your post thaw motility cut off below witch you feel it isn't even worth it?? How many sperm do you put in a straw?? Do you calculate breeding units based on live sperm ?? What number do you like to see....100 million live? 250 million live? How much volume can a uterus hold when doing a surgical insem?? Thanks for the dialog :) Scarlette ================== Subj: Re:Quick ? Date: 96-11-30 19:04:32 EST From: ALHDVM Thanks, everyone, for your quick replies. I went ahead with the insemination this afternoon. Todays StatPro showed both spots missing at last, which made me feel much better. I'll let you know in a month! Ann ================== Subj: Re:spayed or not? Date: 96-12-01 10:40:02 EST From: SGotwals This question has come up a few times recently... to follow are some things I found with the search: Granulosa Cell Tumor In An Ovariohysterectomized Dog <<J Am Vet Med Assoc 1995,207:1063-1065 -Pluhar: GE, Memon MA, Wheaton LG BACKGROUND: Granulosa cell tumors (GCT) are the most common type of ovarian tumor in sexually intact dogs. GCTs are usually benign, but they may be functional, secreting either estrogen or progesterone, or both. Clinical signs associated with an estrogen-secreting tumor include evidence of proestrus or persistent estrus, vulvar and mammary hyperplasia, vaginal discharge, and receptivity to males. Clinical signs associated with a progesterone-secreting tumor include enhanced endometrial growth and glandular secretions, which may result in cystic endometrial hyperplasia and pyometra. Ovariohysterectomy is the treatment of choice. SUMMARY: A 7.5-yearold, female Golden Retriever was presented for evaluation of mammary and vulvar enlargement and vaginal discharge of several months' duration. The dog had been spayed at six months of age. Abnormal physical examination findings included bilaterally symmetrical alopecia; hyperpigmented and lichenified skin; enlargement of the caudal mammary glands and vulvar labia; a thick, yellow, malodorous vulvar discharge; and a large palpable, intra-abdominal mass caudal to the left kidney. Results of serum biochemical analyses were normal. A hemogram revealed nonregenerative, normochromic, normocytic anemia (PCV, 24%). Cytologic examination of vaginal swab specimens revealed superficial-intermediate and nucleated and anuclear superficial squamous cells, typical of late proestrus. A human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) stimulation test showed that baseline serum estradiol concentration (55 pg/ml) and estradiol concentrations 30 (70 pg/ml) and 120 minutes (73 pg/ml) following hCG administration were abnormally elevated (reference range for an ovariohysterectomized dog, < 15 pg/ml). Baseline progesterone concentration and progesterone concentration 30 minutes after administration of hCG were normal, but progesterone concentration 120 minutes after administration of hCG was high (1.57 ng/ml; reference range, < 1 ng/ml). Transabdominal ultrasonography revealed a 4.5 x 5.5-cm complex echogenic mass caudal to the left kidney. An exploratory laparotomy showed an irregular 5 x 5-cm mass next to the caudal pole of the left kidney. The uterine stump was adhered to the right caudal aspect of the body wall. The mass and the remainder of the uterine body and cervix were removed. Three days after surgery, the dog was febrile and exhibiting signs of abdominal pain. Abdominocentesis revealed a white blood cell count of 123,000/ul (90% neutrophils, 10% macrophages) and the presence of bacteria. Histologic examination of the surgical specimens revealed an ovarian GCT and chronic, active, erosive metritis. A second exploratory laparotomy was performed four days after the first. The infected tissue was debrided and the remaining stump was closed. The dog was released from the hospital four days after the second surgery. Re-examination of the dog two months after the initial surgery revealed resolution of vulvar discharge and mammary gland enlargement. The hair coat was fuller and shinier. A bone marrow aspirate was cytologically normal. Results of the hCG stimulation test were within the reference range for an ovariohysterectomized dog. CLINICAL IMPACT: This report is the first to document the occurrence of GCT in a previously ovariohysterectomized dog. The tumor may have arisen from remnants of an incompletely excised ovary or from an accessory ovary. The hCG stimulation test was useful in demonstrating the presence of functional ovarian tissue, and cytologic examination of a vaginal swab specimen correlated with results of the hCG stimulation test. _________________________________________ Small Animal Clinical Endocrinology 6[2], May-Aug 1996 This article summary and comments are from 'Small Animal Clinical Endocri ================== Subj: Re:spayed or not? Date: 96-12-01 10:40:28 EST From: SGotwals some more... Pug with enlarged mammary glands 93-09-13 VETAL CONTENTS: - Pug 93-09-13 VETAL - Pug with enlarged mammaries 93-09-14 IAmeti - Enlarged mammary glands 93-09-14 K9DOC ____________________________________ - Pug 93-09-13 VETAL I saw a case today (Sept 13, 1993) that I could use some help on. Five year old Fe Pug Previous history of false preg. Feb 1993 July 9, 1993 'pyometra' surgery When looked into this in more detail the uterus was described as only slightly enlarged with yellowish fluid and petechial hemorrhage in the wall At time of surgery enlarged mammary glands were also noted July 23, 1993 Mammary glands still enlarged, with bloody discharge. Antibiotics (Cefa tabs) started August 2,1993 No change. Continued Cefa. Added Ovaban 5 mg sid eight days August 18, 1993 No change, switched to Baytril. Smear of mammary secretion=neutrophils, macrophages, RBC's, no bacteria. Since no response to Ovaban, vet decided to try last bottle of Cheque Drops August 28, 1993 No change. Another round of Baytril Sept 7, 1993 Glands 60 % reduced in size. Continued Baytril Sept 13, 1993 Mammary glands still greatly enlarged. Temp Normal. Bloody discharge from glands. Basically she is normal and alert, but owner does say she isn't eating well and has lost weight (one-half pound in last month). I sent off Culture & Sensitivity and repeated cytology with exact same results. Any help would be greatly appreciated! VETAL ____________________________________ - Pug with enlarged mammaries 93-09-14 IAmeti Is this dog sick? If ovariohysterectomies are done at a certain time in relation to estrus (can't remember exactly when) enlarged glands will occur post op. I would culture the mammary exudate after stopping antibiotics. If no growth and she is not sick I would suggest no drugs and wait for the problem to go away. Also recently ADRENAL mentioned hypothyroidism as a possible cause of pseudocyesis, so you could check for that. Irv ____________________________________ - Enlarged mammary glands 93-09-14 K9DOC Irv is correct that hypothyroidism can cause galactorrhea, it's worth checking out. However, I'd consider biopsy of the glands to try to better determine the nature of the disease process. Alice vinid=B0001805, collectionid=BIM9301, date0795 Source=Internal Medicine Board, vbInternal Medicine, vinboard ================== Subj: Re:spayed or not? Date: 96-12-01 10:42:41 EST From: SGotwals more.... Pseudopregnancy/Hypothyroid 95-11-09 Adrenal CONTENTS: - Re: pseudopregnancy/Hypothyroid 95-11-09 Adrenal - Re: pseudopregnancy/Hypothyroid 95-11-10 BUNMKSVET - Re: pseudopregnancy/Hypothyroid 95-11-11 Adrenal - Re: Psoudociesis/Hypothyroid 95-11-12 BUNMKSVET - Re: Psoudociesis/Hypothyroid 95-11-12 Adrenal ____________________________________ - Re: Psoudociesis/Hypothyroid 95-11-09 Adrenal John, I have seen galactorrhea with hypothryoidism but not the full blown signs of pseudopregnancy. What is the dog doing? Dave ____________________________________ - Re: pseudopregnancy/Hypothyroid 95-11-10 BUNMKSVET The dog has had galactorhea and mothering of stuffed animals as symptoms in the past. She had an OHE done yesterday. She has had several episodes of superficial pyoderma also. I had heard/read that there was some connection between pseudocyesis and hypothyroid. If there is a connection there obviously want be any effect on her repro system but there may be other clinical signs of hypothyroid later on. Thanks John ____________________________________ - Re: pseudopregnancy/Hypothyroid 95-11-11 Adrenal You can see galactorrhea as a result of inc TRH levels which lead to inc prolactin secretion. It will be interesting to see if the signs resolve after the spay or if other signs of hypothyroidism occur. Dave ____________________________________ - Re: Psoudociesis/Hypothyroid 95-11-12 BUNMKSVET Dave, I guess my real question is it worth the time and/or money to test for hypothyroidism. Should I just sit and wait? John ____________________________________ - Re: Psoudociesis/Hypothyroid 95-11-12 Adrenal I would sit and wait for now to see if the problem resolves after the spay. Dave vinid=B0006543, collectionid=BHO9501, date0296 Source=Endocrinology Board, vbEndocrinology, vinboard ================== Subj: Re:spayed or not? Date: 96-12-01 10:48:48 EST From: SGotwals more..... - Re: re:inappropriate sex 94-03-05 K9DOC Hypothyroidism can be associated with galactorrhea (inappropriate milk secretion) so there is probably some connection to the reproductive hormones there (Help me out here Duncan, I'm a bit foggy on this and I'm home late without my peripheral brains). It may be the two are connected, maybe not. Alice ____________________________________ - re: Inappropriate sex 94-03-09 DrPam Hypothyroidism associated with galactorrhea? I have a 7 yr old FS Labrador with milk dripping out of 1 breast. Cytologically had many vacuolated cells& PMNs, few bacteria. Am treating with ABs. Maybe I should test for hypothyroidism or just treat for it? Dog has had a weight problem from time to time, but doesn't strike me as hypothyroid. Pam Henricks ____________________________________ - Re: re: Inappropriate sex 94-03-09 K9DOC Pam: Well, it wouldn't be too expensive to rule it out. :) Alice ____________________________________ - Re: re:inappropriate sex 94-03-12 Adrenal Galactorrhea can occur with hypothyroidism due to the effects of TRH. When T4 levels drop TRH and TSH levels increase. TRH stimulates release of prolactin. Dave Bruyette DACVIM vinid=B0002015, collectionid=BIM9401, date0795 Source=Internal Medicine Board, vbInternal Medicine, vinboard Hope this helps...some interesting stuff!! Scarlette ================== Subj: ovulation timing Date: 96-12-01 22:05:13 EST From: MMohler123 I noticed a few posts back that someone was doing daily LH tests rather than daily progesterones to determine ovulation timing. Any comments on which would be best?? I've always done progesterones, but would LHs be better or more accurate?? which would be cheaper??mike ================== Subj: Re:ovulation timing Date: 96-12-01 22:52:53 EST From: K9obgyn LH is the more "accurate" test. Progesterone is simply done to "estimate the LH peak". You must however be sure you detect the true LH peak as Scarlette points out in her last post on the subject, by proving a progesterone rise after you see an LH peak. It must be done DAILY as LH may be up on 24 hrs in some dogs. It is therefore more expensive, I usually use it on frozen semen dogs who are boarded with me or owners who are committed to seeing me every day and cost is no concern. Kit Kampschmidt, DVM